Wednesday, February 12, 2014

A Good Guy with a Gun. No really, off-duty Cook County Deputy wins gun battle

"I had to kill him," a pained Kevin Costner looking forlornly at a dead Capone gangster.
"Oh yeah. He's as dead as Julius Caeser..." Sean Connery who notes Costner's torn expression. "Would you rather it was you?"
"No. No I would not."
"Well, then, you've done your duty. Go home and sleep well tonight." from The Untouchables (1987) 
During the Bill Nye- Ken Ham "Debate", the best moment for Science came when the question was asked what would change your mind on your respective position.

Bill Nye explained that "evidence" would change his mind while listing several examples, Ken Ham said that because of the bible there was "nothing" which would change his position.

In the Gun Control Debate, Firearm Fondlers are like Ken Ham absolutely convinced of their position and totally unwilling to allow any evidence to penetrate their warped ideas of the Second Amendment.

On 02/10/14 an off-duty Cook County Sheriff Department Sergeant was approached by three young black males while filling up his car at a Citgo station at 103rd Street and Cottage Grove Avenue. One of the three, 16-year-old, Deonta Dewight Mackey, pointed a gun at the Sergeant while a second began going through his vehicle and the third lolled around to his far right.

The Sergeant bladed off, his concealed weapon side back while he fake fumbled trying to get his wallet out. Then ready, he batted away the offenders weapon with his off hand, and shot the robbery suspect Mackey in the head.

The two other offenders fled the scene, while the Sergeant secured his position and checked for additional threats and then kicked the weapon away from the downed Mackey.

The gas station video captured Mackey's death...

Now, Mackey may have been a gang-banger or a a wanna-be but at 16 while we could get into the Socio-Economic Discussion about why Mackey turned to crime at such a young age that's sure to be glossed over or over emphasized depending on ones point-of-view and will bring us far afield of the topic I'm addressing here

Now, it's incidents such as this which make me reconsider my position on guns. 

However, let's look at knowns of the Sergeant and the incident. Off-duty officers have been authorized to concealed carry because of the 2004  Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act. 

But, he's also required by law to requalify with his primary duty weapon and any weapon he carries off-duty at least once a year. His weapons serial numbers are kept on file with the Department, in this case the Cook County Sheriff Police (CCSPD), and he has to prove or at least affirm every year he has positive control of his weapons. Additionally, the CCSPD, did a criminal history check and at least a cursory background investigation of the Sergeant before he was hired and his activities while working are well known and subpoenable.

Would every gun owner be willing to put themselves through this minimum level of background investigation, training and records keeping?

Despite the fact that, 90% of Americans support a strong thorough Universal Background Check, the NRA, the Money and Political Coercion Arms of the Firearm Manufacturers still oppose it. 

Additionally, 2/3rds of Americans seem to support a Federal Firearm Database. However, the NRA paints a dystopic Stalin/Hitler future if registration to create a federal database is undertaken, repeatedly asserting that Registration is the first step to Confiscation.

I believe this is a paranoid delusion, though I will admit that oppressive governments have employed people to confiscate weapons in the past. But, those situations are not analogous to 21st century America. The Great Sword Hunts of Late Feudal Japan and the Tokugawa Shogunate of Japan, for instance, were accomplished because of a number of factors; including social stratification, resistance to Western Imperialism, changing technologies, and religious friction.

Nonetheless, it would be dishonest of me to not acknowledge that this incident is one in which the good guy won.

But, Firearm Fondlers often ignore basic facts, such as the level of training, background investigation and stored data about the off-duty Sergeant and Mackey's use of the weapon in this incident, and shamelessly invent incredibly absurd statistics, such as the Larry Pratt invented claim that guns are used 2.5 million times a year in defense of life (or roughly 6850 times a day or 5 times every minute).


Sarge said...

The question is, "Where did that 16 year old hoodlum get the gun"?
We eliminate the sale of guns to children (with or without priors) and felons and our streets get safer. I am sorry to see a young man lose his life at age sixteen but that was a choice he made; not the cop...


Grung_e_Gene said...

Sarge that is an excellent question. I'd like to see the ISP and CCSPD report on the shooting, info on the history of his gun, and known accomplices.

Most of the guns used in crimes in Chicago come from outside Cook County.

ChickenHammer said...

The off duty Cook County Sheriff Department Sergeant probably survived because of his training and his actively practicing self defense.

Some people will make fun of someone who trains and practices on a regular basis. Some will call them paranoid and try to belittle them and the world they live in. The sergeant survived and one of the bad guys died.

ChickenHammer said...


There is no legal way for a 16 year old to posses a handgun in the United States. The law cannot prevent this. The armed responder (the good guy with the gun) stopped the threat and took care of the problem.

Anonymous said...

That's why we need concealed carry, because shit like this Dart. I bet ol Harry Potter, Tom Dart never been in a situation before. I bet it's crimsons and clovers in Mt. Greenwood, huh.

Grung_e_Gene said...

Well, Anonymous I don't know how you can insult Tommy Dart after this. Cook County has only objected to 240 concealed carry permits. and CC is law in Illinois, but when you're a coward who wants to slander the Sheriff of the 3rd largest County in the Nation behind the cover of "Anon" I can't expect much better.


You do realize that in claiming the "law cannot prevent this" you are advocating that Law be eliminated? After all no law, in and of itself, can stop any criminal. So why have laws?

ChickenHammer said...

You do realize that in claiming the "law cannot prevent this" you are advocating that Law be eliminated? After all no law, in and of itself, can stop any criminal. So why have laws?

Those are your words advocating the law be eliminated. A rational person knows the law is one layer of a multi-layer self defense.

The law keeps most 16 year olds from carrying a gun. Deonta Dewight Mackey slipped through that layer but was stopped by another.

Dervish Sanders said...

GEG: ...we could get into the Socio-Economic Discussion about why Mackey turned to crime at such a young age.

We could, and we should, IMO. I would not say the killer was the "good guy with the gun". Not in the wrong to defend himself, but did he really need to shoot the young man dead? Perhaps he did, but I surely would not call this a "feel good story", but a tragedy that this young man chose the wrong path, and now his family has to deal with the loss.

Grung_e_Gene said...

DERvish it's most assuredly not a feel good story. And yes addressing Socio-Economic problems is the way to combat this but, throwing a hundred million new guns into the mix is a surefire way to undermine almost any fixes we can think of or adopt.

Ah ah ah, Chicken Hammer,

You wrote "The law cannot prevent this."

You did not write sometimes or often or rarely or any other qualifier you wrote "The law cannot prevent this."


So yes you are in fact advocating for lawlessness.

BadTux said...

Actually, a law *could* have prevented this. Where did that 16 year old's gun come from? Well. It was stolen. It was stolen from someone's house while that person was at work. That's what studies show, the majority of guns used in crimes are handguns, and the majority were stolen.

This is a crime that could have been avoided by a simple regulation requiring all guns to be secured in a gun safe when not being used or transported. A simple regulation that the NRA has fought tooth and nail every time someone has tried to implement it in any effective manner.

As for the idiots claiming that we need guns to deal with an oppressive government, yeah right. Those are the same kinda dumbasses who insisted that Hitler instituted gun control (he didn't -- he *relaxed* gun controls that had existed for over a decade before he came to power, removing all regulations on ownership of long guns and allowing handgun ownership with a permit). We're dealing with the government of the U S of A here. They got the goddamned ATOMIC BOMB, for cryin' out loud. A buncha inbred billybobs with small calibre rifles are gonna take on the whole goddamned U.S. Army, Air Force, and Marine Corps? I don't *think* so! These fellers ain't the brightest bulbs in the chandelier, yo. Just sayin'.

- Badtux the Well-Armed Penguin